Good Offensive Options
Overall
- Running Shine → wavedash → grab
- Wakeup Shine
- Find ways to cross them up with dash
- Dash thru backside shine
- Like dash way through into uptilt or bair
- Hitting your confirms off of nair (either vs grounded or in-the-air marth)
- Low percent (sketchy): nair into uptilt or grab or dashdance to avoid their likely grab
- Mid percent: nair into nair into nair… Or nair into dash attack or bair
- High percent: Nair into upsmash, or up air.
Low %
- Laser
- Single laser is a fine idea. So is double.
- Don't be predictable with laser → laser → nair in…
- Spaced strong bair
- They can't really grab this, does good damage
- Drill (Wave)Shine Grab
- Mid %
- Run Up undershoot Nair Into dashback. They may whiff grab and then you grab or upsmash them.
Mid %
- Fullhop → waveland in uptilt mixup
- Nair → nair → nair lol
- Uphtrow backair
- Drill → shield+cstick-up (buffered jump) → falling upair if they grabbed
- This baits grab
- fatgoku is good at this
Kill %
- On shield:
- Nair Shine Instant Upsmash in the corner. It'll either push them to ledge or they'll die
- Backairs → edgeguard
- Can be fullhop bair or bair in place
- Sharking
- Probably just upair
- On FD:
- You can upsmash their landing
- Can also shark with DD → grab or nair
Avoid
- Nairing from middle-distance / far
- Uptilt in neutral
- Too slow / low range / low active frames. ez to grab. Try dtilt instead?
- Wakeup spotdodge
- Instead do shine or wake up dashback. or even wake up jab maybe???
- Spamming FH Nairs
- Instead do fullhop → one of: maybe late nair/later drill/nothing / double jump to a plat
- Spamming FH Falling Drill
- this is easy to grab
They're Looking For
Low Percent:
- Dash Dance → Grab
- SH Fair → Grab
- Corner camp → Downthrow off stage
Higher Percent:
- Still dash dance grab
- at really high % they want to dtilt me off
- Raw Fsmash
- nair nair nair nair
Their Common Habits (and how to counter)
- SH Fair/nair → dashback
- hard to deal w/ honestly. just accept it and laser sometimes?
- Trying to grab every nair I do
- undershoot instant dashback → dash back → grab their grab
- Spamming Dashback
- Teching on platforms with roll (especially away)
- Wait and then fh / dj upair
Or try jumping onto plat and grabbing? But no good followups off this
Stage Positioning
- I have to make sure to utilize platforms, especially when I'm at high percent.
- Camping from really far away as fox isn't that great for making progress against marth.
- Cornered marth is not actually that scary
- People are scared of marth doing dthrow dtilt, but really marth is in a very vulnerable position over by ledge.
Edgeguards
- Default to grabbing ledge at some point
- Stand with your back to ledge and then sh jump out shine (they'll think ur grabbing ledge)
- Or, do the actual marth killer as a good mixup. cody has a good video on it. It actually work really well, lol. It takes a while to set up, given that you have to roll into position.
- Marth Killer 2.0 is good
- But so is grab ledge → Big Double jump back refresh if you think they're gonna do a late-ish sweetspot (maybe after they side b stall)
- DONT:
- just give them ledge for free
My Recovery
- Generally recover with high up b
- Up b to top plat
- up b to side plat
- up b horizontally just above downtilt height. (BC this also threatens up b to ledge)
- Side b shorten to ledge (from above)
- Side b vertical / horiz sweetspot to ledge
On My Grab
- at 0:
- can't do all that much
- Grabs in corner:
- Low % Fthrow off instant double jab into shine. You can catch their jump
- Can also fthrow dtilt
- Backthrow off
- Into probably grab ledge
- Low % Fthrow off instant double jab into shine. You can catch their jump
Wakeup options
- Dashback usually best
- Tech in place shine
- Wakeup shine instant fullhop (my fav lol)
Stage Preference
- Dreamland
- Battlefield
- Yoshis/Fountain/Stadium
- FD
Player-Specific
Umar
- Does dtilt at high percent
- I should spam shield
- When I'm high percent he up b's to stage / to hit me
Aerius
- good off grab
- swings a lot
- f smash edge guards
- good sdi
try
- running shine
- more grounded movement
- shine spike eg
Forrest
- favors attacking over grabs
Typhoon
- Will f smash eventually
- Comes down with aerials
- Recovery can be exploited