Marth vs Fox

Good Offensive Options

Running Shine → wavedash → grab
Wakeup Shine
Find ways to cross them up with dash
- Dash thru backside shine
- Like dash way through into uptilt or bair

Laser
- Single laser is a fine idea. So is double.
- Don't be predictable with laser → laser → nair in…
Spaced strong bair
- They can't really grab this, does good damage
Drill (Wave)Shine Grab
Mid %
- Run Up undershoot Nair
  - Into dashback

Fullhop → waveland in uptilt mixup
Nair → nair → nair lol
Uphtrow backair
Drill → shield+cstick-up (buffered jump) → falling upair if they grabbed
- This baits grab
- fatgoku is good at this

On shield:
- Nair Shine Instant Upsmash in the corner. It'll either push them to ledge or they'll die
Backairs → edgeguard
- Can be fullhop bair or bair in place
Sharking
- Probably just upair
- On FD:
  - You can upsmash their landing
- Can also shark with DD → grab or nair

Nairing from middle-distance / far
Uptilt in neutral
- Too slow / low range / low active frames. ez to grab. Try dtilt instead?
Wakeup spotdodge
- Instead do shine or wake up dashback. or even wake up jab maybe???
Spamming FH Nairs
- Instead do fullhop → one of: maybe late nair/later drill/nothing / double jump to a plat
Spamming FH Falling Drill
- this is easy to grab

Low Percent:

Higher Percent:

SH Fair/nair → dashback
- hard to deal w/ honestly. just accept it and laser sometimes?
Trying to grab every nair I do
- undershoot instant dashback → dash back → grab their grab
Spamming Dashback
Teching on platforms with roll (especially away)
- Wait and then fh / dj upair
- ~~Or try jumping onto plat and grabbing? But no good followups off this~~

I have to make sure to utilize platforms, especially when I'm at high percent.
Camping from really far away as fox isn't that great for making progress against marth.
Cornered marth is not actually that scary
- People are scared of marth doing dthrow dtilt, but really marth is in a very vulnerable position over by ledge.

Default to grabbing ledge at some point
Stand with your back to ledge and then sh jump out shine (they'll think ur grabbing ledge)
- Or, do the actual marth killer as a good mixup. cody has a good video on it. It actually work really well, lol. It takes a while to set up, given that you have to roll into position.
Marth Killer 2.0 is good
- But so is grab ledge → Big Double jump back refresh if you think they're gonna do a late-ish sweetspot (maybe after they side b stall)
DONT:
- just give them ledge for free

Generally recover with high up b
- Up b to top plat
- up b to side plat
- up b horizontally just above downtilt height. (BC this also threatens up b to ledge)
Side b shorten to ledge (from above)
Side b vertical / horiz sweetspot to ledge

at 0:
- can't do all that much
Grabs in corner:
- Low % Fthrow off instant double jab into shine. You can catch their jump
  - Can also fthrow dtilt
- Backthrow off
  - Into probably grab ledge

try